if i may so bold as to ask what it is, oh professor ... indeed you may (listen and learn young padawan here's a formula to make a mentasm from scratch 1st, take a sawtooth, or even better: a lot of them yes professor, any help is appreciated, continue pls. k. I suggest you take the superwave pulse machine now head for the sawtooth & use a lot of detuning here? no, here: max, sub 1: 120, sub 2: max, etc. k. what are you using when describing this technique? people have been trying to crack my sound for years k. any examples knockin about to educate me with? well, we wouldn't be anywhere if it weren't for kevin agreed (managed to catch a copy on discogs last yr. "what the?" was the preset. youtube here I come - schooled!!